, america is better than being terrorized by gun, better than being held hostage by the nra and the party of glocks, better than a nation where newtown is the norm. gary wills says america treats guns like a secular god. e.j.dion says depose the false diety. i say amen. we owe it to those 20 newtown babies. that does it for "the cycle." we're on break next week. michael eric dyson is now in for martin. michael eric dyson, what you got to say? >> i say that which you promote is just wonderful. >> happy holidays. >> happy holidays to all of you. thanks, guys, and good afternoon. i'm professor michael eric dyson in for martin bashir on this very busy friday, december the 21st. today speaker boehner lost his way. the president chose his man. and the nra, well, the nra turned tragedy into an opportunity of the worst kind. >> nra has blood on its hands. >> the media demonized lawful gun owners. vicious, violent video games. we have blood-soaked films out there, a thousand music videos, the media. the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. politicians have no busine

weapons ban come and go. >> the nra's number one -- this myth that the nra can destroy political careers is just not true. >> it not a myth that after the assault weapons ban was passed, there was a huge political price for democrats to pay. and nearly 20 years later, they don't want to touch the issue. >> it is true that they lost a lot of seats then t cause and effect isn't quite so clear. and what happened then isn't what happens now. if 27 people killed, to children, if this isn't enough to change the mentality, the saipsyc psych ke of the american public. >> we have this assault rifle, the pistol, the semi-automatic pistols, the 9 millimeters, but we're also learning that these weapons were found and legally purchased by his mother, at her home. she lives in a rural area and had them for self-defense. >> i can't tell you if you stopped people who have psychiatric problems, who have criminal records who have substance abuse problems, who are minors, if you ever stopped any of them from guy buying a gun, that this particular event would not take place. this is just one in a se

there's not been a head. the nra and gun lobbyists successfully even stopped the basic organization in charge of enforcement of our gun laws in america. >> when the late charlton heston would run that ad for the nra, he would wave some old musket near and say, from my cold dead hands, which i thought was awful to begin with, the absolute nature of that demand that they hold onto the gun, but he never waved an ak-47, never showed a 30-round clip in the air with a big banana. he never did that because people don't think of that as american revolution era. they think of that as state of the art mass killing. >> of course it is. and those are military weapons, military assault weapons. and, you know, thank goodness law enforcement turned up in newtown when it did or the list of children who had been killed and teachers would have been much, much longer. think about what happened in aurora, colorado. that man stood in front of a crowded theater spraying that audience with one of these assault weapons, and the only thing that stopped him emptying the 100 cartridges that he had to shoot was i

and won comfortably. this myth that the nra can destroy political careers is just not true. >> it's not a myth that after the assault weapons ban was passed, there was a huge political price for democrats to pay. and nearly 20 years later, they don't want to touch the issues. >> well, it is true that they lost a lot of seats then. the cause and effect isn't quite so clear. and what happened then isn't what happens now. if 27 people killed -- 20 children isn't enough to change the psyches and the desires of the american public -- >> let's talk about this, mr. mayor. here is the reality. let's look at the weapons that were recovered from the scene of the disaster. you have this bushmaster assault rifle. this would have been banned under the assault weapons ban. the pistols, the semi-automatic pistols, were recovered. the medical examiner said they were not used. this information could change. but also we are now learning that these weapons were found and legally purchased by his mother at her home. >> she was in a rural area. you have them for self-defense. a lot of americans agree wi

coming to guns and the role they played in connecticut. and when it comes to the nra, "the new york times" points this out. quote, leaders of the organization have declined interview requests since the shootings. the group's twitter account is silent and deactivated the facebook page. all of this despite protests right outside of the nra's headquarters in washington, d.c. yesterday. but with democrats including nra-backed lawmakers promising to push for reasonable bans on certain weapons, within the new year, at least one republican is blaming democrats for playing politics. >> here we are a town which was controlled in the house by democrats in the senate by democrats and the white house by democrats for two years. and nothing took place for stricter gun control laws so for the partisans in our country to already start injecting politics in here, this saddens me further. >> president obama, meantime, made the first serious step toward new efforts to reduce gun violence meeting with members of the cabinet inside the white house just jed and led by vice president joe biden, beginning to lo

74% of nra members and gun owners support having background checks for all gun sales. right now, only 40 -- sorry, 60% of gun sales take place with a background check. so we have huge disagreement there among gun owners, nongun owners, blue states, red states, we need to see that sort of agreement on capitol hill. the people are there, we need to follow the will of the people. >> i do think sometimes there's a tremendous chasm on how guns are viewed in places like chicago, new york and california, how they're viewed in versus how they're viewed in places like i'm from in south carolina, or in rural places like newtown, connecticut. >> i think it's true that there is some disagreement, but what i'm saying is there's also a lot of agreement and a lot of things that we can do which would save a lot of lives, because another thing that we have to do, a massacre like this, causes us all to confront the specter of gun violence that happens every day, often in shootings that don't make the national news. so we need to look for solutions that would prevent a vast number of those shootin

table. senator manchin is one of the nra's brightest stars on capitol hill. the nra endorsed him in his 2010 west virginia senate race. manchin filled a campaign ad where he filed a bullet through the copy of the cap and trade bill. now manchin is open to the senator's bill. >> i believe it's time for all of us to sit down and look at the bill. if diane is saying basically assault weapons, i don't know anyone in the sporting or hunting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. i don't know anybody that needs 30 rounds in a clip to go hunting. >> okay, it's encouraging to see so many lawmakers speaking forcely about the need for change. but it's frustrating to know that we've been down this road that's called the gun show loop. well, the nra sells people on buying these weapons and then use this fear to convince them that their freedom is going to be taken away from them. i want the nra to tell the families of newtown, connecticut, how much fun this bushmaster rifle is. i want to ask leaders how fun this has been for the country. some people call this the tipping point. the tip of the s

perform mass executions like today's. leaders in washington from both parties and groups like the nra all say that now is not the time to talk about how gun safety laws can save lives in america. i agree. now is not the time to talk about gun laws. the time for that conversation was long before all those kids in connecticut died today." carolyn mccarthy's mention of the national rifle association, the nra is what everybody is talking about when they talk about the need for leadership regardless of the political consequences on this issue. when the president today said we are going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics, he was talking there about the power of the nra as a lobby. and it is true that they have so dominated their field of policy that instead of having the gun laws most americans would like to have, it sometimes seems like instead we as a nation just have the gun policies that the members of the nra would want. that is the impression that we all have. but that is not at all true either. we do not

. even nra members, 74% of nra members and 89% of all gun owners want background checks before anybody can get a gun, so the men and women in congress have to stiffen their backs, not be afraid of the organization the nra, because the members of the nra are better than the organization, and it's time for us to act finally once and for all. >> howard, your boss, mayor michael bloomberg, has been leading the charge on gun control throughout the year. he was on "meet the press" yesterday and had strong words calling on the president to exhibit leadership on the issue. i think there is a sense nationally that this time is different. we just talked to chris jansing on the ground in newtown, but that there is -- that i think for folks who have wanted to see reform on our nation's gun laws, that this could be an inflexion point. does the mayor share that feeling? >> he hopes so. you know, i may be alone in this, but i am just no longer comforted by comforting words. i feel like as the governor said, you know, we've become very good at doing these memorials after these events and then

congress handcuffed on gun control by the nra? >> well, i would imagine that there are members who are trying to get a 100% score from the nra, which is then used to campaign, raise money against a person who does not have the 100%. but i -- i really think that the overwhelming majority of americans are sane and they are interested in seeing that this at lee is minimized. this kind of mindless act is minimized. but look, as painful for me it is to say there are individuals no in congress who may believe it is time to ban assault weapons but who might not want to do it because they don't want the barrage of nra money and opposition coming in their direction. >> glad you said that congressman clear. i want to thank you for your concerned and your time. >> good to be one. >> thank you. >>> next up, new information on the mother of the gunman and the cache of weapons she kept in their house. for those with visions of doing this... ...this... ...and this, dancing in their heads... ...we have these. home depot gift cards. give the gift of doing, in-store or online. military families face, we

in response to this, to me they're just in bed with the nra. to me they're just aligned with the leadership in the nra which is in bed with the gun lobby, a highly resourced lobby that controls too many of our politicians at the state and national level. i'm sorry, but governor rick perry has unveiled himself as being part of that lobby today. >> and by the way, martin, what an insult to professional law enforcers. what an insult to our men and women in the military who train and put their lives on the line to conduct actual, you know, security, who protect our freedoms and who are well-trained to do it, to say any old person could be able to pull out a gun and do what they do. you know what? that's not true, and ask somebody in the military, ask -- i have a lot of friends who are police officers. ask them how it feels to have to use your gun. ask what that does to them psychological to have to use their gun. ask how hard it is to kill another human being. to say any teacher should prepare themselves mentally, emotionally and psychological to kill at any moment. what kind of peop

. >> its plan to add more guns to schools. >> a completely dumb-ass idea. >> i don't think the nra is listening. >> you can call it whatever you want to call it. >> congress hasn't confirmed the director of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. >> dysfunctional, dysfunctional, dysfunctional congress. >> we're not going to allow what has happened in the past to go on. >> congress has just three business days to pass legislation to avoid going over the fiscal curb. president obama has cut his hawaii vacation short and is on his way back to washington. the democratic senate will be in session tomorrow but the republicans are staying home. the republican aides tell nbc news that the house will not be in for business tomorrow. they released the statement calling on the senate to act first. senate majority leader harry reid quickly responded with a statement of his own. how else republicans pushed middle class families closer to the cliff by wasting an entire week with their incompetent plan b stunt. it is time for house republicans to put middle class families first by passing the s

think are cowed by the nra. as i said yesterday, do you think the nra has power? just remember the number one priority was to defeat barack obama. last time i checked he will be inaugurated again. >> mayor bloomberg will be live on "morning joe" later this morning. two leading democrats who have earned high praise from the national rifle association are now rethinking their stance on guns. last night senator mark warner of virginia became the latest to call for action. >> i've been a long-time supporter of second amendment rights. you know, i believe every american has second amendment rights, and the ability to hunt and it's part of our culture. i had an nra rating of an "a." but, you know, enough is enough. my -- i've got -- i'm the father of three daughters. this weekend they all said, dad, how can this go on? and i, like i think most of us, realize that there are ways to get to rationale gun control. there won't be one perfect law that will stop a crazy person from doing evil things. but when we have close to 30,000, you know, killings a year from all types of gun violence, eve

national rifle association's proposal in response to last week's deadly attack in nu oun. the nra says more schools should have guards armed with guns of their own. nbc justice correspondent pete williams says s in washington for more on this. can you break down the nra's solution? >> the nra says the answer to combating school violence is simple. it says banks, power plarngts congress, and the president are protected with armed security and the nation's schools should be guarded that way, too. after a week of calls for tighter gun restrictions and signs of a possible shift in public attitudes, about access to the weapons like the rifle used in connecticut, the national rifle association instead called for putting more armed security officers in the nation's schools. the. >> the onlying that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> reporter: the nra's wayne la pierre says children in most schools are defenseless because the schools proclaim to be places without guns. >> they tell every insane killer in america that schools are the safest place to inflict maximum mayhem w

meaningful contributions mentioned in the statement by the nra earlier this week. president obama weighed in with a web address on the topic this morning. >> if we're going to succeed it's going to take a sustained effort from mothers and fathers, daughters and sons, law enforcement and responsible gun owners organizing, speaking up, calling their members of congress as many times as it takes, standing up and saying, enough on behalf of all of our kids. >> nbc national investigative correspondent michael isikoff joins me now from the site of the nra press briefing. mike, what do we expect to hear from wayne laperriere? obviously a very sort of brief statement released earlier in the week. any indication what he is going to say and how? >> well, i think we got one indication just a few moments ago when david keen the president of the nra came out and asked everybody assembled to join in that moment of silence for the victims of newtown. i think that is a recognition that the nra realizes that this is a major moment in which the public is engaged on this issue in a way it never has

think we have the power on the congress and senate. you have the power of the nra but on the ground so many millions of people are advocating for gun control. so i think at this point, you need to -- when you think about the strategic coalitions that make people power recognize that the nra's not omnipotent, it may behave like god, but actually, it's not. also what we need in schools, more detectives in schools in new york, in urban areas, that's exactly what you have. and what you have is criminalization of young people. particularly people of color. when you think of a piece like mother jones that takes you over 60 years, most of the guns are illegal. >> that's clearly what we have in this case. >> that's what we have, the guns were legal. so what we never want to do is go to where the power and profit sits. so what we do, we talk about we need this for children. and we need to deal -- we need to criminalize the mental health which is what we will do, but what we don't do is treat the issue. >> also, we have a security mind-set, understandably, right? exactly. the impulse of apoca

gun violence are stronger than those who want to continue the nra policies of always trying to get more guns on the street as opposed >> and i think what we need now -- >> congresswoman maloney, i'm sorry. we are out of time. i want to thank the congresswoman and josh horowitz, both for being with us. >>> that's going to do it here live from connecticut. i'm chris jansing. nbc's coverage continues now. >>> good evening, american, and welcome to "the ed show" from new york. there are tragedies in life that shake our souls and break our hearts. today, the nation experienced one of those tragedies. every american will struggle to come to grip it's with what happened today in a small community in connecticut. sandy hook elementary school and the small community of about 27,000 residents was the site of a shooting rampage. at this hour, we know 26 people at the school were shot and killed by a lone gunman. 20 of those deceased were children. surviving students and their parents said teachers ordered children to hide in closets. witnesses reported hearing dozens of shots, as many as 100

the best "sideshow" moments of the year and the nra's best excuses for standing in the way of any and all reasonable restrictions on guns. this is "hardball," the place for politics. to the best vacation spot on earth. (all) the gulf! it doesn't matter which of our great states folks visit. mississippi, alabama, louisiana or florida, they're gonna love it. shaul, your alabama hospitality is incredible. thanks, karen. love your mississippi outdoors. i vote for your florida beaches, dawn. bill, this louisiana seafood is delicious. we're having such a great year on the gulf, we've decided to put aside our rivalry. now is the perfect time to visit anyone of our states. the beaches and waters couldn't be more beautiful. take a boat ride, go fishing or just lay in the sun. we've got coastline to explore and wildlife to photograph. and there's world class dining with our world famous seafood. so for a great vacation this year, come to the gulf. its all fabulous but i give florida the edge. right after mississippi. you mean alabama. say louisiana or there's no dessert. this invitation is

and coalesces, the public support is out there. 74% of nra members support criminal background checks. you know, that consensus is out there. we just have to make that felt in the halls of congress. >> but the important political consensus is of the organization the nra that can mobilize numbers of voters who will vote on that issue only. and the nra leadership has been the enablers of the mass murderers. and they've got to be called on it. they've got to be called on it by the president and the leaders of congress to confront the nra leadership, as bob said. nra members, they're okay with reasonable gun controls. the nra leadership has been fanatic and frankly functions as enablers to mass murder, and they've got to be stopped on that. >> and we just accept at face value some of the rhetoric that -- lindsey graham was on tv the other night saying, you know, in response to talking about sensible gun laws that no, i believe in the second amendment, i like to hunt. you know, that is not contrary to the sensible gun laws that anybody is advocating. you know, when you talk about so

days before the nra gets organized. and they failed to do it. they tried and they failed. and lbj had a bill that had been bottled up in committee for months and months for, you know, licensing and registration and they signed something much, much less in october and he spoke out, president johnson did, in october of 1968, forcefully and angrily about the failure even after robert kennedy's death to do something to defeat the gun lobby. while i have the spirit of the season and a feeling that things have changed and saw joe's powerful -- joe, your powerful statement in the aftermath, in the immediate aftermath of the killings, i have my doubts as to whether this president and this congress have the guts and the strength and the political courage to go forward. >> they have to move quickly, don't they, john heilemann? >> yeah, i think they do. you can't lose them. the sense of moral urgency that comes with proximity to this thing. and right now the nra is on its heels defenders of our insanely permissive gun laws in defensive crouch right now and it's the time you want to capitalize on t

. the nra, a lot of conservatives, in congress, who say that that's not the answer. we need to do a better job of enforcing the laws that are already on the books. president obama certainly making a pretty strong statement in his remarks yesterday and again in hi radio address today. >> switching gears now. a few moments ago we reported hillary clinton faint ad pew days ago. she is home now. expected to be okay. how will her illness affect the timing of the announcement of the next secretary of state? >> reporter: i don't know that it will have an impact on that announcement. what i can tell you, craig, is that just to put night context, secretary of state clinton recently to cancel an overseas trip because she got a stomach bug. because of that bug, according to officials at the state department, she became dehydrated several day ace go and did faint and did suffer a concussion. but she is at home and is resting and she is being monitored by doctors and she is expected to return to work sometime soon. >> nbc's kristen welker from the white house for us on this saturday afternoon. t

restrictions on guns will kick off a new fight in washington. the nra spent $18.6 million supporting and opposing candidates during the 2012 cycle. according to the sun life found case, 51% of the numbers of the new congress have received funding from the national rifle association's political action committee at some point in their political careers. the nra is known for staying silent, running out the clock after tragedies like the one in newtown but yesterday there was a sign that they may be feeling more political pressure than ever before and from the changing tone around the country. group released a statement saying, "they are shocked, saddened and heartbroken by the newtown tragedy." out of respect for the families and as a matter of common decency we have given time for morning prayer and a full consideration of the facts before commenting. the nra is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to make sure this never happens again. the nra also announced a major news conference in the washington, d.c. area on friday. they didn't say where. while the nra spent several days mostly

gun-related deaths since the sandy hook massacre and the nra is still doubling down on its plan to add more guns to schools. >> if it's crazy to call for putting police and armed security in our school to protect our children, then call me crazy. >> that's the wrong debate to have if you want to talk about protecting our children. >> well, this time the nra's remarks could actually be a good thing for more gun regulation. we'll explain why next on "now." [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. start saving at citi.com/pricerewind. i don't have to leave my desk and get up and go to the post office anymore. [ male announcer ] with stamps.com you can pri

it can, and i think joe biden has a long history of working with members of the nra and certainly law enforcement on these issues in the past. the famous exchange during the debate in '08 and '07 on these issues so he's got credibility, and i think the president is setting up his game plan pretty smartly at this point. right now the country is in a mood to do something, and i think that republicans have to recognize that, number one and number two, that right now again, the president is in a political position where he's got more cards to play than republicans necessarily do, so i think there has to be a willingness to first see what the president puts on the table and try to meet him on that point and the nra is the first e effort to hear what they have to say on this, and they'll have a measured and a more com pro hencive approach to addressing this issue. >> what do you think the chances are of that happening, governor and the chances that we've seen some pro-gun democrats stepping up to the plate, but republicans are a much tougher sell. >> think you're right with the question you

boggling. thank you. up next, the nra's response to gun violence? what else, more guns. the new battle over gun violence with chris matthews. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics. >> welcome back to hardball. the tragic school shooting has put renewed focus not just on the guns, but on school safety itself. >> i call on congress today to act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every single school in this nation. and to do it now. >> but here's what it looks like when you run the numbers. slate magazine took a look at what a program to put armed guards in every school might cost. there's nearly a hundred thousand public schools and the average police officer makes about $55,000 a year. so a lowball estimate would be about 5.4 billion a year. what can we really do to keep our children safe from guns? good question. joining me now expert, michael nutter of philadelphia and eugene robinson. mayor nutter, thank you so much for joining me. you're on the front line every time there's a homicide in philadelphia, you know all of the fact

connecticut, and the executive vice president of the nra has now broken his silence. he says it's the good guys against the bad guys, and everyone should have a gun. i disagree. if you look today at the speech that we showed just earlier here on msnbc, it's the first time since the newtown mass murder that the nra has spoken out in a speech that brought out the protesters. >> see there? several protesters interrupting. the nra did not focus on regulating semiautomatic weapons in this address, an address i think can only be described as combative. wayne la pierre attacked the press, the game and movie industry, and unnamed politicians for basically getting this story wrong, and he issued a range of criticisms. he staked out his organization's solution to this problem. ultimately as more guns. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. i call on congress today to act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every single school in this nation. >> there you have it. the nra called on congress to fund armed guards at every

virginia tech shootings. he worked for the brady campaign. we called the nra hoping to get someone from that organization on tonight they said they're not commenting until more information is thoroughly known in this case. they're putting off any kind of comment. it's obvious. congresswoman, thank you four coming on. i any this must bring it all back. i thought it was great, i said we have to get carolyn mccarthy because her reason to be in public life, to take on the voter, to deal with the public was this issue of the horror that hit your husband. >> and it was. and, you know, it's not funny, but i mean yesterday in my office we sat down to plan what we were going to do for the next term, and i said, listen, i came here in to congress to reduce gun violence, and i said i want to make sure that we go full forward. we have to do something about it. you know, the president's words meant a lot to me today because his tone was different. we have to take this head on and i know that the white house had said earlier that this was not a time to talk about gun violence, and you know what? they

regulation. but he didn't please gun advocates either. the nra gave him an "f" on his most recent report card. those two grades tell you a lot about the state of today's gun control debate. now after the mass murder of children at sandy hook elementary school the president is doing something different. he is taking a louder stand the that might endear him to at least one side of the debate. and next month he plans to introduce a gun control agenda and highlight it during the state of the union. meanwhile, california senator dianne feinstein's planning to introduce a bill had a would ban assault weapons as expected. conservative groups are already taking aim at it. on the drudge report, for example, one headline reads civil war senate to go for handguns. now, we were just talking about conservative rhetoric on a different civil war earlier. let's put war aside. let's put the militant language aside and let's talk about what is happening here, maggie. as you know, people follow this debate remember the original assault weapons ban which was itself considered very cosmetic. it was essentially at

stranglehold not only the nra, now we've got the koch brothers fund funded program in the mix. last night michigan passed a law making it legal to carry a concealed weapon in a church, in a school, in a daycare center and they also abolished the local county boards that were in charge of supervising the permits that do go out. so we've got these well-funded lobbies, these well-funded efforts to keep politicians on a short leash when it comes to any kind of common sense gun control, and so it's going to take a lot of courage on the part of the president but not just the president, everyone in congress and not just democrats, the nation. >> karen, you've worked previously for the new york education department. give us your perspective on a school like this because, as i understand it, most schools are accessible until about 9:00 a.m., quarter past 9:00, and then the access is closed. yet this individual or indeed the school made the 911 call just after 9:30. >> i'm sure we'll learn more about there was some speculation that perhaps this individual may have taught at the school or had

a correction to make, earlier in the show when i said if you ask nra members that they believe if people have to pass a background check in this country before buying a firearm, i said 57% of members said yes to it. it is actually 74% of members who want a background check that want -- 74, not 57, sorry about that, we switched up our slides on that. here on nbc, our continuing coverage of the mass shooting, this massacre at sandy hook elementary school will continue now into the night. live from newtown, with chris jansing, please stay with us. >> reporter: 28 people dead in the nation's latest shooting massacre, but this time, the horror is at an elementary school. this is msnbc's live coverage of the shooting in newtown, connecticut. the first call for help came just after 9:30. >> the school shooting at an elementary school in fairfield county, connecticut. >> reporter: it is a small town, holiday lights are up everywhere. >> a young man wearing black. >> he entered the school, he was wearing all black. >> armed with at least two weapons, carrying two handguns and hundreds of r

and say whatever i can do to help, i will help. i've had a member of the nra from the central valley of california call me and say i have an ar15, which is a sister weapon to this bushmaster, which your reporter said was common. i don't believe it's common at all. it's a weapon of war. it's designed for military use. it's a civilian version of the m-16. it's a killer weapon. you have no chance against that weapon, so i profoundly disagree that all of these weapons are so usual, and we intend to introduce a bill, and i intend one way or another, month matter how long it takes, to get that bill through. there's one thing i'm sure of. in the suicide bombancy of doing something that is sound, that is practicalable, that is workable, these incidents are not going to stop. i've watched them now since the texas belltower in 1967. >> mike bloomberg just said at a briefing at city hall in new york that if the president had acted after he said he was going to act after tucson, if something had happened, we would have saved thousands and thousands of lives, that so many people have been killed

, the nra speaks after the connecticut school massacre. that's ahead. this is "hardball," the place for politics. tmas? yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery. [ male announcer ] it started long ago. the joy of giving something everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. at unitedhealthcare insurance company, we understand that commitment. and always have. so does aarp, an organization serving the needs of americans 50 and over for generations. so it's no surprise millions have chosen an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help cover some of the expenses medicare doesn't pay. and save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. to find out more, request your free decision guide. call or go online today. after all, when you're going the distance, it's nice to have the experience and commitment to go along with you. keep

coast, it's wednesday, december 19th. christmas is almost here. >> very respectful dialogue. the nra had a respectful statement. i think a lot of people showing respect on this. >> feel something may be be happening. >> feel some grown-ups, maybe. there are, of course, exceptions. >> there are a few. we have mike barnicle with us. you're not an exception. beautiful piece in "the daily news" today. we'll read that in must read. thank you very much. former treasury officials. mark ratner is with us as well. he has a must read. i'm serious. >> beautiful. >> also in washington, washington anchor for "bbc world news america" katty kay. >> no pieces, sorry. >> you'll write one next time. thank you. so we've got a lot to get to this morning. >> a lot to talk about today. >> those exceptions, what are you talking about? >> just in the conversation about everything you thought there were two exceptions. >> rick perry, governor of texas, and -- >> is it bob -- >> they said we need to -- we need to arm teachers. >> we have to think about it. >> somebody in the school with a gun. >> guns in scho

tough is the nra to deal with on these issues? i mean, talk about the power that the nra wields. >> look, i think actually the nra's power is more perceived than real, alex. when i heard the news yesterday and like jimmy, i grew up with a rifle. i grew up in pennsylvania. we went hunting. we never had handguns around but we had a rifle in the house. and we used it for hunting. that was it. but i think a lot of us who were in the hunting community have much more tolerance for stricter regulation of the handguns and especially certain kinds of handguns than most people per sooechlt and i think you see that in the polling. when i heard the news yesterday as a father of two children who i send out to public school here in washington, d.c. every day, a city that has outlawed guns but still has a very high crime rate, and the husband of a public schoolteacher, i just wanted to see my wife and two kids as quickly as possible and hug them and know that they're okay. like all other parents, i think, in the country, including the president felt when we heard the news yesterday. >> well, i

your son. florida seem to have a special problem here. we have big following in florida with the nra i can see that. looking at their website you know, and everyone looks at florida as far as concealed weapon permits i think it has tripled over the last few years. i know the nra has over four million members. people want to bear arms. i upt stand that. people want to have concealed weapons now. when i say it is a problem not just the state of florida. i see that as a problem states are operating as individual countries. when you go to europe, you know, the size is around the same but you see each state size is a country in europe. we are operating like a country. each state if colorado wants marijuana then they goat et it. if florida wants to have guns. was i was growing up i noticed that the federal government stepped in more. the lawmakers were accountable. if you went too mar in yofar in state the federal government slapped you back a little bit. when president obama came into arizona he got a stern talking to. and he's a chief of the country and he has a finger in his face. we have

correspondent pete williams. pete, the nra not budging on its message from the press briefing that it gave on friday to the appearance on "meet the press" yesterday. their point is that the best issue for the gun control problem is not more regulation, but to have armed officers, trained armed people manning our schools. if past is prologue, where is the nra's next move going forward? >> well, you know, i think that's a good question because past may not be prologue here. the past was that the obama administration saw absolutely no chance of getting this flew congress. president obama when he campaigned for his first term, said he would like to look at reveezing the assault weapons ban. the white house sent some gentle signal early on they might try to do that, and it was instantly clear that they backed away from it. the mere prospect of president obama's being elected caused a huge run on ammunition, police departments were almost running out of it. now many democrats think the situation is different because of newtown and the other mass shootings this year, so i guess we're going to find o

mine from first baptist church in pensacola, florida, that are lifetime members of the nra, who went out hunting across northwest florida and alabama and georgia and mississippi, from the time they were 9, 10. jon meacham, you were raised in a similar culture. although you were wearing white gloves during your formative years. i'm sorry. i was struck that the most passionate people that said what you always want to hear, thank you for saying what i wanted to say. thank you for putting into words. they were -- they were, my friends from first baptist church, they were hunters, they were people that said, i'm not going to have somebody -- i'm not going to have extremists take my right to keep and bear a arms, protect my family, and go hunting with my kids. >> i think that's the key word. gun owners who think this through realize that the second amendment culture has bone totally captured by extremists since before really, but i think the marker is when, in 1994, i think, the phrase, jack booted thugs, remember, was used about the atf and people like george h.w. bush and norman schwartz

♪ ] >> so one of the questions now is whether the nra has been chastened by it. the whole gang is here, ana kasparian, michael shure, ben mankiewicz. so at least they have suspended their twitter account--wow. they're not on facebook any more. apparently they feel a little embarrassed. and when meet the press asked 31 of the most pro gun rights senators to come on this sunday, none of them agreed to come on. it's nice to know that they're slightly embarrassed at the fact that they have the wrong position, and their position led to a lot more people being killed. during the election the nra was not embarrassed at all. they ran ads like this against obama. >> in the debate obama slipped up and revealed his real plan. >> part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced. >> obama's national gun ban would outlaw common rifles including rifles used by law abideing citizens for hunting target shooting and self defense, and obama even opened the door to a handgun ban the same obama who backed bans against handguns. he's targeting gun owners. defend freedom. defeat obama.

. >> we have to make that coalition. we have polled gun owners and nra members and found broad support on things like background checks on all gun sales. the american people who are watching and believe that we deserve better than this and deserve a nation that is better and safer, join us at we are better than this.org. you have to keep talking and engage in the process otherwise, we will have the same conversation the next time a mass shooting happens. we can no longer keep repeating it over and over and the same c conversations, because we have to move forward with that and we have to do it together. >> collin, you were shot in 2007, and the tact that we are here in 2012, does it feel like we have failed you? your fellow survivors and those who did not survive that massacre? >> that is a tough question. i feel good about what i am doing today and the the people i am connecting with with, and the progress in capitol hill and ledgislatures across the kun tc. it has been an overwhelming experience, but it is one that is very rewarding. we are trying to take the horrible situations and